Saturday, May 31, 2014

Response to William Lane Craig on "Was Jesus a Failed Eschatological Prophet?"


Dr William Lane Craig is a prominent Christian philosopher, debater and author who has done a lot of good work in the area of philosophy and specialises in debating atheists and secularists. He is a good communicator and debater, remains calm under pressure and is gentlemanly and gracious in his conduct. Recently, on his Reasonable Faith website he provided a response to a question sent to him by someone named Jessie, on "Was Jesus a Failed Eschatological Prophet?". I think his response was somewhat lacking and reveals a potential weakness in his theology that could be exploited by the sceptics. When trying to deal with the problem of Jesus teaching He would return in the first century, but apparently not fulfilling that prediction, both Dr Craig's answer and that of many modern evangelicals is to fudge on the time statements. Both Jessie and his sceptical antagonists know that Jesus clearly taught a first century return, and clever sceptics will have a field day with modern evangelical attempts to side step this issue by trying to claim that the time statements are not clear. 

With the above observations in mind, I thought I would throw in my two cents worth on this issue. Being a blog post, I will try to keep it short and concise. Jessie in his question is correct when he states that Jesus was clearly talking about his contemporary generation in Matt 24:34. When evangelicals say it is unclear, I think they do so to preserve their futurist paradigm, not because of sound exegesis. There is nothing ambiguous about the timing of the return of the Jesus or of the context of the passage. The passage starts off with a question about the destruction of the Herodian temple, which was fulfilled in AD70. The Olivet Discourse is Christ's response to that question and he bookends the discourse by saying to his first century audience "I tell you the truth, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened". I somehow don't think his original audience would have been thinking "Of course, he must be talking about some distant future generation 2000 years removed from us", especially when he had told them  that they would hear of wars and rumours of wars (Matt 24:6), that they would see the abomination of desolation (Matt 24:15), and would need to flee to the mountains (Matt 24:16). Furthermore, if this was a world ending event what good would fleeing to the hills do? In contrast, this admonition would make perfect sense in relation to the destruction of Jerusalem, where running to the hills would enable the Christians to escape the coming destruction of the city. The early Church Father and historian Eusebius in his "History of the Church", tells us that the Christians fled Jerusalem (Book 3 paragraph 5). Also in the same passage he applies the prophecy of the abomination of desolation to the destruction of the Jerusalem Temple in AD70. The parallel verse of Matt 24:15, found in Luke 21:20 further confirms the first century application of this prophecy when he describes the abomination of desolation as "When you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, you will know that its desolation is near". Luke writing for a more gentile audience puts the abomination of desolation in layman's terms, so to speak. This would have helped his audience more clearly understand what was being talked about. Regarding the coming of the Son of Man on the clouds (Matt 24:30), the application of this to the destruction of Jerusalem fits the "this generation" , first century timeframe; and is also consist with the nature of fulfilment for this type of language in the Old Testament that Jesus's audience would have been well familiar with. In the Old Testament there were a number of passages using apocalytic language describing God coming on the clouds, or mountains splitting, or the sun, moon and stars being blacked out; that are applied to an event of judgement where God uses an invading army to bring judgement on a wicked city or nation. Examples include Isaiah 13 especially vv: 6-13 (destruction of Babylon, cf vv:1 and 17-19), Isaiah 19:1ff (destruction of Egypt), and Micah 1:3-16 (destruction of Samaria and Jerusalem). Josephus also relates that at the time of Jerusalem's destruction an incredible phenomenon appeared in the sky: "for before sun setting, chariots and troops of soldiers in their armor were seen running about among the clouds, and surrounding of cities" (Flavius Josephus, "The Wars of the Jews", 6:5:3). So when Luke talks about signs in the sun, moon and stars (Luke 21:25), I think this event could be argued to be the literal fulfilment of that. 

I am not sure how Dr Craig can say that Matt 10:23 was probably a saying about the end of the world. It is what it says, a statement to Jesus' first century disciples about how he would return before they had finished going through the cities of Israel. Thankfully He kept his word and returned in AD 70. There is no confusion in either Jesus or Matthew's mind about first century fulfilment and "end times" because the end times were in the first century. The writer to the Hebrews, writing in the first century said "in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son..." (Heb 1:2). Evidently, the writer to the Hebrews believed that the last days were already a present reality in the first century. John is even more specific. In 1 John 2:18 he says that "it is the last hour". Not only was it the last days in the first century, it was the last hour. Furthermore, in 2 Tim 3, when Paul wrote to Timothy to warn him about last days apostates, he warned Timothy to have nothing to do with them. If Timothy was warned to have nothing to do with them, it is probable they were already on the scene when Timothy was alive in the first century. Peter also wrote about these apostates (2 Peter 2) and Jude, in a passage very similar to Peter's, said that these false teachers had already come on the scene (Jude 4). 

Dr Craig's attempt to quote passages such as Matt 24:45-51 to argue for a large interval of time doesn't work. The delay mentioned in this passage is delay within the lifetime of the wicked servant, one human lifetime or generation, not thousands of years. The master returns within the lifetime of the servant who saw him leave, not when his distant relatives are alive many centuries later. Interestingly enough, in this passage it is the wicked servant who says "My master is delayed". Most evangelicals seem to follow the wicked servant's lead in believing that their master is delayed in His return. In fact they go even further than the wicked servant, stretching out the delay to thousands of years. The other parables that Dr Craig appeals to (Luke 12:35-47 and Matthew 25:1-13) to argue for parousia delay also don't work for the same reasons as above, that is the Lord returns in the lifetime of the same people who saw him leave. Furthermore, Hebrews 10:37 contradicts the idea of parousia delay by teaching that the return of Jesus would occur (relative to the first century readers of Hebrews) in just a very little while and He would not delay.

Dr Craig assumes that a number of the events in the Olivet Discourse were not fulfilled in the first century, however it can be shown by Scripture and history that certainly Matthew 24:1-34 was fulfilled in the first century, and possibly even the remaining verses of the discourse after v34 as well. This will be the subject of future posts on the Olivet Discourse where I will work through the passage in more detail. Also the context of the Olivet Discourse will be examined in greater detail, as Matthew 21-23 contain a number of predictions of the destruction of Jerusalem (such as the destruction of the murderers city in 22:7 and the desolation of the Pharisees house in 23:38) and this section forms important context for Matthew 24.

In conclusion, there is no reason to fudge on the time statements. There is no reason to think that the Biblical writers were confused, going back and forth between near future first century fulfilment and distant future fulfilment in the same few verses. The only solution to the so-called parousia delay problem is fulfilment, fulfilment in the first century time frame that Jesus and the Apostles talked about. This being the case, we are not getting raptured out of here any time soon, with the last days being past days. Therefore, this makes Dr Craig's work, and the work of the church, of witnessing to and debating the world with a Biblical worldview all the more important. If he were to reform his view on eschatology to a fulfilled view (Preterist), it would strengthen his responses to the sceptics and eliminate a potential weak link in his argumentation.

14 comments:

  1. The problem with your logic is that in order to save immanence of Christ's return, you destroy it completely! How, you might ask? Well, by saying that all the warnings about Christ's immanent coming (and they were warnings, not promises!) are actually no warnings at all, not to the most of the church for the last 1940 years! Not only that, but most of the NT becomes just irrelevant to God's church, and with it the OT becomes irrelevant since Paul said that it was written for those who would be living in the last days - and it ain't us, since the last days are behind us, in your view!
    And then again, if this is the new Earth and the new Heaven, there are many things missing from it! Righteousness that dwells in it (2. Pt 3:13) for example! Tearlessness and deathlessness also (Rev 21:4)! And then there is still no "redemption of our bodies" (Rom 8:23), but there is still groaning of creation!
    And also, the end when all Christ's enemies are subdued still did not come (1. Cor 15:25) - not to mention death.
    And again, what are we to do with the first and second resurrection in Revelation 20? No matter what you believe about the millenium, there is a Millenium - a time between the fall of Antichrist (whether it be Nero or a future ruler) and Christ's second coming!
    Miroslav

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  2. You have raised a common objection to the past fulfilment (Preterist) view of Christ's return, namely that if it is in the past it is somehow irrelevant. However, I don't think that objection is carefully thought out and the people who make it are not consistent with it. By that same logic all of the historical narrative in the Old Testament would be irrelevant to us, as would be the Scriptures about the crucifixion of Jesus and the ministry of the early church in Acts, since that is all about events in the past. However, 2 Tim 3:16 teaches us that all Scripture is God breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking etc. Even those Scriptures that clearly speak of past events are still relevant to us in that they contain lessons for us and teach us about topics such as God, man, salvation, holiness, sin, redemption etc. AD70, like the cross event, was a past event that has ongoing implications. Heb 9:8 says that the way into the holy place had not yet been disclosed while the first tabernacle was still standing. From AD70 onwards it is thought that there is no more 'intermediate state', but that believers go straight to heaven when they die. In Heb 9:10 the external regulations of the old covenant applied until the time of the new order. Therefore, the new order starts at the disappearance of the regulations of the old covenant (AD70). Note in Heb 8:13, the old covenant had become obsolete (at the cross) but had not yet disappeared (that would happen in AD70), there was a transition period between the two where the old was being phased out and the new phased in (the last days, which as noted in my original article were already a present reality in the first century). Furthermore, as I mentioned on Twitter, not even the smallest letter could pass from the law until heaven and earth passed away. The OT law passes when heaven and earth passes. In one of your tweets you at least partially agreed with David Chilton's article that the earth and heaven of the old covenant passed away, so at least that point shouldn't be too controversial. You then raise the question of whether there is a further global fulfilment of that. Partial preterists and full preterists would have a different answer to that. They both agree in having a long term view of planet Earth. In practical terms it is somewhat of a moot point. They would both agree that we ain't getting raptured out of here anytime soon and should have a long term dominion oriented view. We will get our own personal rapture at death, so we still have our heavenly hope as well as hope that we can have a positive impact on Earth. Dan 2:44 states that the kingdom would be set up in the days of the fourth kingdom (Rome, 1st century). When Jesus was on the scene he described the kingdom as near (Mark 1:15) and that he would come in power with the angels to usher in judgement before all of his first century hearers would taste of death (Matt 16:27-28). I also note that there are a number of passages in the Old Testament that describe a local judgement in terms of universal destruction or the Lord riding on the clouds or coming down and melting mountains. Examples include Isaiah 13 especially vv: 6-13 (destruction of Babylon, cf vv:1 and 17-19), Isaiah 19:1ff (destruction of Egypt), and Micah 1:3-16 (destruction of Samaria and Jerusalem). If this is how the Old Testament used such language, how do you think the original audience who were mostly Jews steeped in the Old Testament understood it, especially since Paul taught nothing beyond what was found in Moses and the prophets (Acts 26:22)? Upon what basis do we say that the New Testament writers changed the established usage of such language?

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    1. This comment has been removed by the author.

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    2. Thank you for your response!
      Indeed it is true that the Scriptures are God-breathed and useful! What is interesting, though, in your view of prophecy is that all of it was written only for the Christians living in a very short span of 37 years prior to a supposed resurrection. This turn of events would, IMHO, at least be quite unlikely. Another thing that would be quite unlikely is that Holy Spirit would leave it to us, post-resurection believers, to conjure that we indeed live on the New Heaven and Earth only upon the higly allegorical language of apocaliptic Scriptures. So, not only does it not look like we live in a new World where righteousness dwells and where there is no death nor sorrow, but there is also no mention of this fact in a clear and direct way.
      With regards to fulfilment of prophecies of universal destruction that turned out to be pretty local in scope, I agree that indeed it is true that immediate fulfilment in many of these cases was local. Nevertheless, so did many prophecies about Christ have an imediate and local fulfilment that later had typological fulfilments in Christ. For example, the prophecy about Emmanuel in Isaiah 7:14-16 has an immediate fulfilment in Isaiah 8,3-4, but an ultimate and typological fulfilment in Christ.
      So, in the same way, when we remember that both creation of the world and Babylon are pre-Israel events, we do see an immediate fulfilment of destruction of the present world of Israel and a destruction of Roman Babylon in the 1st century AD, but because we know that Revelation 21-22 is the end of the begining of Genesis 1-3, we expect a future recreation/resurrection of the Heaven and Earth and the final judgment of the Babylon the Great!

      Miroslav

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    3. I agree that the Scriptures are God breathed and useful (2 Tim 3:16-17). While I agree a number of Old Testament texts had an immediate fulfilment and were also typological of a future fulfilment in Jesus, I am not convinced that the same holds true of New Testament texts. The Old Testament law was only a shadow of the good things that would come in Christ and his New Covenant (Heb 10:1), which was superior to the Old Covenant (Heb 8:6). Given that Christ fulfills the types of the Old Covenant, I can’t see any basis for believing that the New Testament Scriptures also function in a typological manner.

      I don’t think Rome was Babylon the Great. Babylon the Great was guilty of the blood of the prophets (Rev 18:24). Only 1st century Jerusalem was said to be guilty of the blood of the prophets (Matt 23:29-39), whose blood would be avenged on them (Matt 23:35), in their 1st century generation (Matt 23:37). Since the prophets are all dead this cannot refer to any future city. Note also that in the parable of the tenants, the owner of the vineyard Jesus returns (second coming) and kills the very same people who killed the son (Matt 21:40-41). The pharisees clearly understood Jesus to be talking about them (Matt 21:45). The kingdom would be taken from them (the old Jerusalem) and given to a people that produces its fruit (the church, ‘The New Jerusalem’).

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  3. Further to the above, the time statements are promises. There is nothing conditional in these time statements. I have already mentioned Matt 16:27-28 that puts Jesus return with his angels in the first century. Incidentally ancient historians such as Josephus and Tacitus describe an event around the time of the destruction of Jerusalem that provides a somewhat literal fulfilment of this. I have provided the Josephus version in my original post above. Furthermore in Matt 24:34 Jesus said that all the things he had talked about prior to verse 34 would be fulfilled before the generation of his hearers passed away. There is no if, buts, or maybe's about it. The sceptics know that Jesus taught a 1st century return, and if Jesus didn't return when he said he would, then he is a false prophet. As RC Sproul notes in his book 'The Last Days According to Jesus' that sceptics such as Bertrand Russell used the alleged non-fulfilment of the second coming to attack Christianity (pp:12-13). Thankfully Jesus did return when he said he would, so the attacks of the sceptics fall to the ground. The first century fulfilment of the Olivet discourse is further confirmed by the disciples question about the destruction of the temple which starts of the discourse. Throughout the discourse Jesus says to his first century hearers that they would see these things. Christ's coming was associated with the end of the age (Matt 24:3), and yet the ends of the ages had arrived in the first century (1 Cor 10:11). Therefore Christ's coming would be in the 1st century. Christ's comments about the Sabbath would be especially applicable to first century Jerusalem and wouldn't make much sense in a modern context. If the judgement in this passage was global, what good would it do to run to the hills (Matt 24:16). The event in question was clearly local, that could be escaped by heading to the hills and indeed that is what the Christians did as recorded by the early church father Eusebius ('The History of the Church', Book 3 paragraph 5). The abomination of desolation is described by Luke in the parallel Lukan passage as being 'When you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, you will know that its desolation is near'. Most commentators agree that this section of text was fulfilled in AD70. Since the time text in Matt 24:34 and parallels teach that the generation that sees the preceding signs would see all of them, once it is admitted that some of the signs were 1st century then it follows that all the signs were 1st century. Matt 24:34 doesn't allow a split interpretation between 1st century and future fulfilment, like many commentators have tried to argue.

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    1. Well, the problem is that in order to appease one set of sceptics, those who question why Jesus didn't return when He promised (by the way, a set of sceptics that Peter warned us about in 2 Pet 3!), you produce another set of sceptics who wonder: "Is this really the fulfilment of all that He promised?" I am not convinced, and I don't think your sceptics would be either!
      So, I do believe that most of Matt 24 is already fulfilled. But, I do recognize that the disciples asked two questions: when will the destruction of Jerusalem be and what will be the sign of Christ's coming and the end of the world.
      I believe that Luke's account of the prophecy is more chronological than Matthew's, both because Luke was more interested in chronological order and because Luke was the last of the synoptics to write his Gospel. So, basically, all of Luke 21,8-24a was fulfilled in AD70. But v.24 ends with a remark that "Jerusalem will be trampled on by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.", and to this I would add that Matthew 24:14 is being fulfilled in these same "times of the Gentiles": "And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come."
      So, Luke 21:25-33 is still future, and v.32 "this generation" should either be interpreted as pertaining to the timeframe of v.31, or "all" is really "all" of what Jesus taught that will be fulfilled in v.8-24, and the rest of it being obvious to the disciples will be fulfilled in the future after the times of the Gentiles.

      Miroslav

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    2. It is good that you believe that most of Matt 24 was fulfilled in the first century. I’m happy if Christians see that the last days prophecies are at least mostly fulfilled in the 1st century and don’t get caught up in fatalistic, modern last days madness. I think in the preterist world there is room for partial and full preterist alike and there is room for differences of opinion concerning the implications of a fulfilled view of Matt 24. That said, Matt 24:3 refers to the ‘end of the age’ rather than the ‘end of the world’, which is the direction modern translations seem to go with this verse. Also, Matt 24:14 had been fufilled in the 1st century. The Greek word translated as 'world', ‘oikoumene’, refers to the Roman empire in Luke 2:1. Furthermore, Paul considered that the Roman Christian's faith was being reported all over the world (Rom 1:8), the gospel was bearing fruit all over the world (Col 1:6) and it was proclaimed to every creature under heaven (Col 1:23). I also suspect the ‘times of the gentiles’ referred to the 42 months that the temple and holy city were trampled underfoot by the gentiles (Rev 11:1-2), which is the length of the Jewish war with Rome in the 1st century.

      Peter and Jude both wrote about last days apostates and are parallel passages. However, in Jude we read that they had already arrived on the scene in the first century (Jude 4), much like the antichrists that John wrote about in 1 John 2:18, when he talked about the last hour, had already arrived. Therefore, I don’t believe the apostates in these passages refer to modern full preterists. With all due respect, the answer that preterists have proposed to the ‘parousia delay’ problem namely that Jesus returned when he said he would, and in a manner consistent with how Yahweh came in judgement in the Old Testament, is more convincing than the alternative explanations which are nothing more than excuses to try to get Jesus off the hook for his allegedly failed predictions. When Christians try to explain away the time statements by saying soon doesn’t really mean soon and near doesn’t really mean near and this generation really means some distant future generation, the skeptics will easily refute such Orwellian doublespeak.

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  4. Sorry about the lengthy post split across three posts (there is a word limit on the posts). The book of Revelation further confirms the first century fulfilment idea. Christ's coming was soon (1:1 and 22:20), and near (1:3). It was about the destruction of a great city that was guilty of the blood of the prophets (18:24). There is only one city in the Bible that was guilty of the blood of the saints and that was first century Jerusalem, according to the words of Jesus himself (Matt 23:35-37).
    Upon them would come all the blood of the righteous (avenging of the martyrs? cf Rev 19:2), their house (temple) would be desolated (cf abomination of desolation, Matt 24:15) and it would happen in their first century generation (cf 'this generation' Matt 24:34).

    As far as everlasting righteousness and no more tears goes, Jesus did away with sin by his sacrifice (Heb 9:26) and in Christ we have become the righteousness of God (2 Cor 5:19). In Jeremiah 31:12 the exiles returning from Babylon would sorrow no more. Therefore the no more tears language doesn't necessarily require the end of the world to be fulfilled. Furthermore, Jesus carries our sorrows (Is 53:4) and as a result the believer has joy in the Holy Spirit (Rom 14:17).

    There is a lot more that could be said. However, It is getting late, so I think I will leave it at that for now. For further info four good books to start with would be Don Preston's 'Who is this Babylon', J.S. Russell's 'The Parousia', RC Sproul's 'The Last Days According to Jesus' and Gary Demar's 'Last Days Madness'.

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    1. So, it is true that it is hard to picture "eggus" in Revelation as coming soon - after 2.000 of delay, but smarter people than I said that it is not impossible. :) I will defer you to those people...
      Again, my response would be that, if Revelation was written prior to AD70 - and it is doubtful! - then again we have an immediate and a typological fulfilment, and if written after AD70, then I would say that the previous destruction of Jerusalem and the persecution of Nero were used as a type of the destruction and (I would argue many) persecution(s) to come in the present and the future.

      With regards to eternal righteousness and "no more tears" language, I wholeheartedly agree that "already" both are true, but that there is a "not yet" fulfilment in the future, in the same way that the "wonders of the future world" of Hebrews 6 have a from our point future fulfilment in Revelation 21-22!

      Nothing in your arguments persuades me to consider your view, that was considered erroneous throughout Church history, as valid, and frankly your strongest point is Matt 24:32 and Revelation 1:1, 3; 22:20). Having said that, it is a very well known fact that - no insult intended - every heretic has his verse! Full preterism has 4, and that is why it is compelling to some. But, the Scriptures teach us a lot more than just a spiritualized fulfilment of resurrection, and therefore Christ's bodily second coming is still in the future - and part of our future hope! Yes, there is a present hope in and through the Church! It is Christ Himself present through His Spirit! But the present hope does not negate - no, actually it confirms (Eph 1:13) - our future hope!

      Miroslav

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    2. I have not yet found a convincing case for stretching out the ‘soon’, ‘near’ and ‘at hand’ of Revelation to 2000 years!! Full preterism has only 4 verses? Maybe you are referring to those verses that full preterists apply to the 1st century, that partial preterists do not? In which case, it is only a handful of verses difference between the two positions. The two positions have large numbers of proof texts that they agree on. Last time I looked just about every New Testament book and some Old Testament books (eg Daniel) have time statements that point to the first century. Another one is 1 Peter 4:17 ‘For it is time for judgement to begin with the family of God...’ In the Greek the definite article is before time. The time for ‘the’ judgement had arrived in the 1st century, and also back in 1 Peter 4:7, Peter said ‘The end of all things is near’.

      Regarding the late date of authorship for Revelation (mid 90s), I am often surprised at how slim the evidence for this view is. The late date adherents tend to start their argument with an appeal to external evidence (namely the early church father Irenaeus) whereas early date advocates tend to start their argument with an appeal to the internal evidence from the book of Revelation itself. For example, the temple was still standing when John wrote (Rev 11:1-2) and that the heads of the beast were first century kings. Five had already died, and one was reigning when John wrote. The sixth Roman Caesar was Nero (according to ancient Roman historians like Suetonius), implying a Neronian (mid 60s) date of authorship. I refer you to Dr Ken Gentry’s book ‘Before Jerusalem Fell: Dating the Book of Revelation’, which is considered the definitive defence of the early date of Revelation.

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  5. So, here are some questions that I would like to ask:
    1. How would you interpret Matt 26:29 in light of full-preterism paradigm? When will it be/was that fulfilled?
    2. If the Kingdom of God came in AD70 or a few years after that, then why do we already in AD56 have Paul say in 2 Cor 5:17 that the new is already here and the old has passed away?
    3. How can Revelation 21:4 already be fulfilled, when there is a definite "all" added to quantify the "tears" (thus, "the totality of tears"). Wouldn't that at least mean "most of the tears" of at least one kind of people, believers? And notice that all of that is not happening in heaven when we die, but on the new Earth!
    4. What does your system make of the Millenium in Revelation 20?

    Miroslav

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  6. So, upon reading further Revelation 21,1-4, it becomes more and more clear how in John's vision of "new heaven and new earth" those realities that are already true in heaven by promise now and when we die, will come down to Earth from heaven in its realized fullness in the eshaton! Just sayin'! :)
    Miroslav

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    1. If I understand correctly, You are taking an "already/not yet" view of Rev 21? I think that would be the standard view of both amillenial and postmillenial Reformed folks, including partial preterists. The full preterists would see the new Jerusalem replacing the old Jerusalem in AD70 and the kingdom coming in the days of the 4th beast of Dan 2 and overwhelming the other world kingdoms as per Daniel 2:44. David Chilton's commentary on Rev 21 in his book "Days of Vengeance" is worth a read. It was written when he was a partial preterist (he later became a full preterist).

      Regarding Matt 26:29 above, I would tie it in with the wedding banquet of Matt 22, which Matthew associates with the destruction of those murderers and the burning of their city, which even a premillenial futurist such as John Macarthur applies to the destruction of Jerusalem in AD70 (The Macarthur Study Bible, 1997, P:1434).

      The "no more tears" language comes has it's origin in Isaiah 65:19, which a number of expositors apply primarily to the return of the Hebrews from Babylon. Some of those expositors, such as the famous puritan Matthew Henry, also apply this verse and surrounding verses to the Gospel church as well. Matthew Henry's comments on Isaiah 65 especially vv:17-25 are worth a read.

      2 Cor 5:17, I would understand soteriologically rather than eschatologically. It appears to be referring to the individual's conversion. When a person comes to know Christ they are a new creation and their old unregenerate life has passed away. I think both partial and full preterists would both agree that applies today, as well as to believers in the 1st century.

      The millenium of Rev 20 is understood by partial preterists to occupy the time between Christ's first advent and a future return. Some full preterists such as Don Preston apply it to the period between AD30 and AD70 ("Who is this Babylon" 2nd ed, pp:136-140). Other writers who are essentially (though not technically full preterists) such as J.S. Russell ("The Parousia") have the Millenium starting in AD70. A couple of modern preterist articles promoting a similar view to Russell's can be found below
      http://revelationrevolution.org/revelation-20-a-preterist-commentary/

      http://www.preteristarchive.com/Modern/2006_mckenzie_russell-neglected.html

      I can't say that I have a dogmatic position on the millenium and simply offer all of the above positions for consideration.

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